Is divine abundance a nice thing?

Found this on another blog at http://markjberry.blogs.com/way_out_west/2006/06/is_divine_abund.html

This morning at Resource we were reflecting on the book in the Bible written by and named after Luke, chapter 5...
Once when he was standing on the shore of Lake Gennesaret, the crowd was pushing in on him to better hear the Word of God. He noticed two boats tied up. The fishermen had just left them and were out scrubbing their nets. He climbed into the boat that was Simon's and asked him to put out a little from the shore. Sitting there, using the boat for a pulpit, he taught the crowd. When he finished teaching, he said to Simon, "Push out into deep water and let your nets out for a catch." Simon said, "Master, we've been fishing hard all night and haven't caught even a minnow. But if you say so, I'll let out the nets." It was no sooner said than done—a huge haul of fish, straining the nets past capacity. They waved to their partners in the other boat to come help them. They filled both boats, nearly swamping them with the catch. Simon Peter, when he saw it, fell to his knees before Jesus. "Master, leave. I'm a sinner and can't handle this holiness. Leave me to myself." When they pulled in that catch of fish, awe overwhelmed Simon and everyone with him. It was the same with James and John, Zebedee's sons, coworkers with Simon. Jesus said to Simon, "There is nothing to fear. From now on you'll be fishing for men and women." They pulled their boats up on the beach, left them, nets and all, and followed him.

... the question arose for me, was this the nice thing I always thought it was... you know, Jesus/God bringing abundance, richness to people, his mastery over creation providing for us... etc. etc. I began to think about the story in a different way...
-Divine abundance creates more work - they had to go out even though they had been working all night, then when the nets were filled they had to call on the other crew to help.
-Divine abundance destroys the things we have been constructing - the nets they had been meticulously cleaning were now not only dirty again but were also ripping! If you have ever witnessed nets being made &/or cleaned you will know the amount of work involved.
-Divine abundance puts us in great danger - the boats were so heavily laden that they began to sink... and we know (the story says) that they were far from shore - the risks were as great as they could be, a real life or death choice!
-Divine abundance highlights our inadequacy/vulnerability - Peter was awed by the power of Jesus - the God man... who had the power to move creation... to know the hearts of the people... how can you not feel vulnerable or exposed?
-Divine abundance can mean walking away from the reward - The fishermen were being led to a new place/role... a new challenge... they had to walk away from the reward that was tied to their old role... the fish! So I guess sometimes the abundance itself is a lesson not a reward... not something to be grabbed but something to be learned from and left behind.
Divine abundance is not necessarily 'nice' it can be overwhelming... but it is the promise we receive... it may not be easy to handle or even accept... but it is the promise we receive... it may put us in great danger... but it is the promise we receive... it may mean seeing all we have built for ourselves demolished... but it is the promise we receive... it may mean taking great risks, leaving behind the hope of reward... but it is the promise we receive!

Forge 2

Daryl Gardiner was the second speaker and he asked the question- whats the point in praying if it won't change anything? He told a story about how while talking to a guy in a bar in America at an airport when they would out he was a minister and they'd talked about all their probs, like gambling and abusive rels etc. they all asked him to pray for them. and he did but it didn't make their probs vanish so why pray?

He went on to talk about how as christians we still doubt. The deciples worship Jesus when he rose from the dead but there was still doubt, the story of those guys (inc. abendigo which is a name I love the sound of!!) who were thrown into the firery fernice said they knew God could save them, but if he did they still would not worship and bow down to a statue. The farther of the boy who had fits when asked by Jesus if he believed his son could be healed said he did, but to help his with his unbelief.

As christians we believe and know that God has the ability to do anything but at the same time we struggle with doubt. We still have weaknesses and struggles and doubts and anyone who doesn't is lieing or deluded. And Jesus knew this about his disciples yet he still send them out to into the world. Which also means we can't sit back and wait till were perfect before going out into the world because Jesus calls us to do so despite our struggles and doubts.

Miricles can and do happen but often they don't and we can't go around saying that if you follow Jesus you're life will suddenly be perfect and all the probs will go away. But we can say you'll become closer to Jesus and he will change us- agian not instantly but over time but nothing about changing the world around us.

Forge 1

The first speaker from last night as the Forge intensive open night was Matt Jacoby , who is the lead singer from the band of Sons of Korah. This is a band who put the words of the psalms to music. He sang a few of their songs and basically talked about how todays worship music tends to all be like love songs and while there is a place for that and many of the psalms are all about love and joyful etc. many also are not and talk more about the struggles and hurts of life. He also mentioned about how his spiritual life is full of struggles. But really he didn't talk much and talked about each of the songs he sang.

(My thoughts- guess it gets back to what 'worship' really means. so easy to just assume it's singing praises (often in the form of a love song) to God. Thats often the diff between 'worship songs' and other christian music but thats not always how we feel or where we're at. Why to we tend to ignore everything else in worship?
Last sunday night I had Ben Harper's 'Better Way' played in church and before hand a was a bit unsure if it was really appropriate to do so, but that was totally where my head was at, at that moment so i decided to anyway. Was this selffish of me? to be honest I was prob not in the best mood to lead a worship service last sunday night in the first place. But how does this work in a group worship situation? how do we find a balence?

Also related, one of the guys at church last sunday night was talking about how he was begining to think that anger is another form of depression and how the church tends ignore this but he read one of the psalms of which the last line is ' the darkness is my closest friend'. Imagine a worship song based on that line!!! Don't think that ones in the box of songs to choose from in the back room of the church!)